Tony Polito - a/k/a/ Toni Lee Taylor - An Interview in Jackson Heights - By Warren Allen Smith
You were at the Stonewall that memorable Friday, June 27th, 1969. Do you remember any of the people that were in there?
-- Yes, I was there. We didn't particularly know people by their names. I went out mainly with the drag queens and didn't know a lot of people's names. Steve was the bartender that I knew, and I don't know the name of the other one that night. I was an all-night drag queen in those days. Brandy Alexander was there. We knew each other mainly by our drag queen names. Mine was Toni Lee Taylor.
I have talked with Danny Garvin, who was there. Did you know him?
-- The name is familiar, but again we often used other names to people. Maybe if I saw him I'd remember him,
At that time did you know Steven vanCline?
-- I think I did. I'm not sure. I knew Jeremiah Newton, Sylvia Rivera, and, I think, Robert DeSantis. What I'd like to do would be to get a reunion of people that were at the Stonewall that first night, those that are still alive. The ones that were actually inside, not the ones that were outside. I'd like to find a couple of the homeless boys, too.
Well, Danny Garvin might be one of those guys, and I have his address.
-- If we could get such a reunion, then we could put our name out there - Stonewall veterans - and let the younger generation know what the hell Stonewall was all about, how it started. Whatever my past was, whatever their past was, it's not what counts today. What counts today is for them to know that we're still here and we're having a reunion to make our memories known. This is what I'm in hopes we can do.
Any other names that you remember?
-- Sylvia Rivera, she was a clown - sorry, Sylvia [laughter] -and she was everyone's friend in the place. I'm not sure but I think she was good friends with Brandy Alexander. I know that they both drank a lot together. Brandy was there with the brother of my lover at the time. My birthday was the week before that, and my lover couldn't celebrate then, so we were celebrating that Friday night. Little did I know that we were going to the Stonewall, and little did I know that Brandy was going to be there with my brother-in-law, because I didn't know those two were an item. I was surprised about that. She's the one who told me that all hell's going to break loose here.
Even before the trouble?
-- No, when she saw the cops coming in. And I said I'm not moving. This is my birthday. I'm staying right here.
But you were in drag? Didn't you have to be dressed as a male?
-- You had to have three pieces of male clothing. Well, I had a hat, male shoes with high heels (because I'm a shoemaker and make my own), and my belt! So I had the three pieces of male clothing.
Were you approached by a cop?
-- Yes, I was.
But first let's go back a little. When they came in, there was a room in the back where people could dance. Do you remember where you were when you first saw the cops?
-- I was up by the bar.
As I recall, when you came in the Stonewall at that time you had to pay money, sign a name, and you got one drink.
-- Five dollars.
Five dollars? Are you sure, because I don't think I would ever have paid that much, which might be why I didn't go there very often. I couldn't have afforded it then.
-- It was an illegal club and owned by the Mafia. It was $5. You always had to sign a name, and I signed Toni Lee Taylor.
So the police came in. How many?
-- I couldn't tell you a number. Some were in plain clothes, some in blue.
They sometimes came in for payoffs?
-- Yes, for payoffs. I don't remember any particular time I was there that they came, but you knew they were there.
Then what?
-- Something happened in the middle of the room, not back where they were dancing. Something between one of the cops and one of the drag queens. I don't remember her name, something with an M, Marlana, Marlina, I don't remember. That's when Brandy said we'd better get out of here, and I said I'm not going. My lover said, Come on. And I said I'm not going. It's my birthday, and I'm not going nowhere! And all of a sudden we hear "Enough," and a drag queen got off a punch.
Do you remember who it was?
-- Marlana, Marlina, something that started with an M. Sylvia knows the person's name. That's when all hell broke loose. When the cops ganged up on her, we ganged up on the cops, and I think one of the homeless boys that was there ran out to get some help and before I knew it I was handed a stick that looked like a piece of a bench and I went to the back. The wig came off, the heels came off, and I started to fight.
Did you get put in the paddy wagon?
-- Yes, we got put in it, but we got taken out. The boys took us out of the wagon. The doors had been left open. And while the cops were bringing others out, we jumped out.
Do you remember the people outside? What were they doing?
-- Yes, they were yelling Let 'em go. Don't hit 'em.
Were any of the spectators who were against what was happening?
-- During the battle you don't stop to look at that.
Do you know about "Stonewalled," a just-finished movie directed by the makers of "The Eyes of Tammy Faye," Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato? It claims the "riots," according to a meter maid who worked that night, were simply caused because some pissed-off queens thought that opposite side of the street parking rules had been suspended. The movie also claims that it was queens from The Duplex, not the Stonewall, who went out because a singer saw his car getting a ticket and he was followed by the drag queens.
-- That's not true at all. It started in the Stonewall with the drag queens in the Stonewall. I was there! That previous movie "Stonewall" also had a lot of bullshit. It was all made up shit. Toward the end it got basically true, but that movie was ridiculous.
Were you ever asked by anyone about your being a witness to what happened that first night?
-- No, I didn't come out public until I got divorced many years ago. I came out when I found out what Williamson was doing, I came straight out. We went through hell to have our names dirtied the way he was doing.
Did you know Bob Kohler, who describes how the Mattachine Society was an activist group before the Stonewall riots?
-- I know the name, but I don't know about the Mattachine group.
One person you haven't named, but you say he was not really a Stonewall veteran.
-- A lot of people are full of shit. If it doesn't put a buck in their pocket, then it's no good. Put a buck in their pocket or a politician on their side and give them their 15 minutes of fame, and then everything they did is heaven.
The people in the bar were generally of what age groups?
-- It was an illegal club, but you had mostly people from 20 to 30 years old. Your older customers were there on weekends.
Could they have been looking for chicken?
-- Who doesn't look for chicken?
Were any of the guys underage?
-- Could be. But today they're underage, too. Walk in bars today and you'll see.
Do you recall if there were drugs then?
-- Visible? Not that I know of. We knew they were there. But not like today. When you walk in the bathroom nowadays, you see them. Every generation has an amount of drugs and an amount of this and that.
What was the attraction of Stonewall at that time?
-- It was a gay club where gay people could go, dance, be themselves.
If they were dancing and a cop walked in, what happened?
-- There was a signal. A red light went on, or something.
Do I remember that the main room was kind of dark?
-- It was light. You could see. There were lights behind the bar and mirrors.
Did you know Randy Wicker?
-- Yes, he was a patron.
Did you know Robert DeSantis, now in California, who attended last year and with his friend took marvelous colors that I'd like to get on the homepage?
-- Yes. I'd like to see those photographs. I don't have any photos.
How many people would you say were in the bar when the cops arrived?
-- About 60 or 75 people were there before the cops came.
Then how do you explain that 3,000 or so claim they were inside that night?
-- Thank you. That's what I'm trying to tell you. How can you say you were a Stonewall veteran if you weren't there!
David Carter is a historian writing about Stonewall. Has he or anyone else ever interviewed you?
-- No, I just came out. My name hasn't been around. I'd be willing to talk with him if it'll do any good.
Stephen VanCline says he remembers seeing bloodied people lying on the Seventh Avenue sidewalk.
-- Well, it was a battle. A real battle. Both sides got hurt.
Were you there the second night?
-- That's when I went down. That's when I got my broken nose, my broken jaw, and my front teeth knocked out.
And who did that?
-- I'll give you three guesses. They dress in blue.
You didn't sue, the way they do now?
-- No, my lover dragged me out of there. I was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital, but we saw a lot of cops there, so then I was taken to the Methodist Hospital out in Brooklyn on 7th Avenue. It was reported that I was mugged. When the cops came, little did they know that the woman in charge of the ward was a lesbian, she said you got to get out of here, so she had a folder with her, she laid the folder down and said she was going to the bathroom, my lover picked up the folder, got my clothes, and took me out before the cops found me. To get the wiring on my mouth, we went up to Albany, New York. And we stayed up there on vacation because they eventully had to take the wire out of my mouth.
So you were never booked or in jail?
-- Some were booked and jailed. I think Sylvia was one of them.
What were your hangouts in those days? Was Fedora's restaurant one of them?
-- No. The Gold Bug was one. After Stonewall, it was the Fire House. I joined the Gay Active Alliance (GAA).
Did you go to ACT UP?
-- A couple of times. I saw where they were coming from, and I walked away.
Wasn't it a good place to meet people?
-- I was never much of a cruiser. I've always been married all my life. Well, now I'm single, however. [Laughter]
Then?
-- I met a guy by the name of John Anthony at the Fire House. He used to read books to the younger generation about gay history. He lives in Queens today. So does Steve, the bartender.
Did you know about Mary's on 8th Street
-- No I didn't go there, but I knew about it.
Did you go to the Bon Soir?
-- I wasn't much of a bar-hopper. I went for a couple of drinks. When you're married you mostly go to movies and plays and here and there.
How do you see things now?
-- The politicians today are now buying gay votes instead of helping gays. The only one that ever gave us any help was Geraldine Ferraro, to my knowledge. In our case, what we did back then we didn't know what we were doing. We just went into a war. And I think those kids in the park, if it wasn't for them we'd not have won. If they hadn't come to our rescue, we wouldn't have won that war, I don't care how many lesbians were inside the bar that night. The lesbians today take credit for everything. They didn't do shit. There were about four lesbians. Stormé was one of them who was there that night and also the other nights. None of the parades has given enough credit to the drag queens who were in the bar. Why don't they say, Let's honor them.
If you could form a gay support to help memorialize Stonewall, what would you do?
-- Find me these people who were there that night. Give me a list of those drag queens' names, phone numbers, or addresses, and I'll form that group. I'll show you what Stonewall really was.