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-----Original Message-----
From: tkalam@aol.com [mailto:tkalam@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 6:00 PM
To: eshomabesh@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [eSHOMABESH] For Mr. Avijit's Cunning Comment..
3 Jan 2001
Hello Avijit Roy,
re : Your interpretation of Quran Earth is Fixed and Not Moving
This is what you said ….
"Now, I quote following verses which
clearly state that according to Qur'an
the Earth is fixed."
Followed by your normal illusion by quoting part of the verse
of Quran to
justify your arguments..
If the readers read the complete verse
of the Quran then I am sure they shall
get a different picture and can judge themselves whether Quran
said Earth is
fixed or Not!!!
For our readers once again to differentiate
with Avijit's quotation from the
Quran with mine I have numbered his.
1. "And among His Signs is that
the sky and the Earth stand by His Command…."
[ Ar-Rum(30:25)]
Avijit…where does it states that the Earth is fixed! The
complete ayat is as
follows:
30.25 And among His Signs is this, that heaven and earth stand
by His
Command: then when He calls you, by a single call, from the earth,
behold, ye
(straightway) come forth.
2. "Verily! Allah grasps the heavens
and the Earth lest they move away from
their places,…" [ Fatir (35:41)]
Here we go again… Avijit you changed the words of this verse
to suit your
arguments. The verse when read completely gives us a different
meaning
anyway, Mr Avijit Roy!
35.41 It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and the earth, lest
they cease (to
function): and if they should fail, there is none - not one -
can sustain
them thereafter: Verily He is Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving.
3. "Is not He Who has made the Earth as a fixed abode……"
[An-Naml (27:61)]
Right Mr Avijit.. once again you quote partly twisted verse of
Quran..
Clearly this ayat tell us Earth is firm with rivers and immovable
mountains …
NOT Earth is fixed the way you quote. Same OLD tricks Bro!!! The
complete
verse is..
27.61 Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers
in its midst;
set thereon mountains immovable; and made a separating bar between
the two
seas? (Can there be another) god besides Allah? Nay, most of them
know not.
4. "He has created the heavens without
any pillars, that you see and has set
on the Earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with you……"
[Luqman
(31:10)]
Avijit, I am wondering how you as a Software Engineer concluded
from "lest it
should shake with you" meaning Quran says Earth is fixed
and NOT moving! The
complete verse is..
31.10 He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see;
He set on
the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you;
and He
scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from
the sky, and
produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.
5. "It is god who has made for you
the Earth as a resting place and sky as a
canopy" [Al-Mu'minun (23:64)] ..
You see Avijit your swindle has gone beyond imagination. This
time you ref
(23:64) quotes completely a different verse however, no mention
of earth is
fixed and not moving. For our readers the complete verse is as
follows:
23.64 Until, when We seize in Punishment those of them who received
the good
things of this world, behold, they will groan in supplication!
6. "And He has affixed into the
Earth mountains standing firm, lest it should
shake with you, ..." [An-Nahl (16:15)]
Same as no. 4 Avijit.. I am sure readers will get a clear picture!.
The ayat
is..
16.15 And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm,
lest it should
shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;
So Mr Avijit Roy !!!
Are you still going to insist and make a false interpretation
of the Quran.
i.e. Quran says Earth is fixed and not moving and that Sun is
moving around
Earth!
============================= MY REPLY ===================================
Mr. Tarek, Here is my reply regarding your mail....
Lets start from Ar-Rum.
I translated "And among His Signs is that the sky and
the Earth stand by His Command…." [ Ar-Rum(30:25)]
Mr Tareq's response is … "Avijit…where does it
states that the Earth is fixed!"
Tarek, To elaborate, I put here the three translations of the
same sura:
030.025
YUSUFALI: And among His Signs is this, that heaven and
earth stand by His Command: then when He calls you, by a single
call, from the earth, behold, ye (straightway) come forth.
PICKTHAL: And of His signs is this: The sky and the
earth stand fast by His command, and afterward, when He calleth
you, lo! from the earth ye will emerge.
SHAKIR: And one of His signs is that the heaven and
the earth subsist by His command, then when He calls you with
a (single) call from out of the earth, lo! you come forth.
In Arabic the sura is-"Owamin aiya-tihi antakkumacha
samau, owal aardubi amrihi chumma dhoja da aa kum dawataam minal
aarnbi ija aantum taakhrujjuna".
The Arabic word "Takkuma" refers to stand still
i.e. Not moving or not in motion, or firm, fixed or established.
In Bangla translation of Quran this Takkuma word is used as ---
sthir, onor, otol, shuprotishthito etc.
And the Bangla translation of this ayat is -----"ebong
tahar nidorshon shomuher moddhey ihao ekti ei je-tahari aadesh
e Akash o prithibi sthir rohiyachey, totpor jokhon tini
tomoadigokey maatro ekbaar daakiben, tokhon tomra bhumi hoitey
okosshat bahir hoiya aashibey".
This sura clearly states that earth
is fixed (Akash o prithibi sthir rohiyachey---what is the meaning
of this sentence?). Tareq, does it indicate that earth rotates?
Why do you try to escape its original meaning?
Now come to the translation of Fatir.
I translated as…"Verily! Allah grasps the heavens
and the Earth lest they move away from their places,…"
[ Fatir (35:41)]
Tareq resposed… "Avijit you changed the words of this
verse to suit your arguments. The verse when read completely gives
us a different meaning anyway, Mr Avijit Roy!"
To clarify Mr. Tarek, I give you again the three translation of
the same verse.
035.041
YUSUFALI: It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and
the earth, lest they cease (to function): and if they should
fail, there is none - not one - can sustain them thereafter: Verily
He is Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving.
PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth
that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is
not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement,
Forgiving.
SHAKIR: Surely Allah upholds the heavens and the earth
lest they come to naught; and if they should come to naught,
there Is none who can uphold them after Him; surely He is the
Forbearing, the Forgiving.
Where did I change the meaning of the verse, Tarek ? I gave
you exactly same meaning what the verse says.
In Arabic-"innalaha iumchikuch samaowatey owal
arda anu tazulan. Owa laain jalata-inn aamchakahuma minn
ahadish mim bay dihi. Innahu kana halimangaffura".
Here the bold words (iumchikuch tazulan) together refers
to "Protect from any movement" or "Protect
from turning /running/displacement". That's why Bangla
translation of the ayat "innalaha iumchikuch samaowatey
owal arda anu tazulan" is ---"Nishoyi Allah aakashshomuho
o prithibi k norachora hotey dhorey rekheychen".
Mr. Tarek, you told that the verse when
read completely gives us a different meaning. What's the different
meaning ???? Does it refer to earth's any kind of rotation?
Now come to the sura of An-Naml.
I translated that "Is not He Who has made the Earth as
a fixed abode……" [An-Naml (27:61)]
Tarek wrote….. "Right Mr Avijit.. once again you quote
partly twisted verse of Quran.Clearly this ayat tell us Earth
is firm with rivers and immovable mountains …NOT Earth is
fixed the way you quote. Same OLD tricks Bro!!!"
Mr. Tarek, please notice the complete translation of the verse:
027.061
YUSUFALI: Or, Who has made the earth firm to live
in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable;
and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water?
(can there be another) god besides Allah? Nay, most of them know
not.
PICKTHAL: Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed
abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed
firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas?
Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!
Mr. Tarek, don't you see with your
clear eyes that allah made our earth fixed and firm ? Where did
you find that Earth is firm with rivers and immovable mountains?
It is not "with" Mr.Tarek….it is "and".
Allah made fixed earth and place rivers and placed firm hills
(see Pikthal).
The above verse also express the poor knowledge of ancient Arab.
I must say that Quran erroneously put the wrong ideas about
the creation of Mountains. The ancient people believed that
the earth is fixed and it is Allah who placed (threw down) the
mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep it from shaking.
I refer some verses related to creation of mountains:
(Al-Anbiya') 21:31, "And We have set on the earth firm
mountains, lest it should shake with them...''
(Al-Nahl) 16:15, "And He has cast onto the earth
firm mountains lest it should
shake with you...''
Luqman 31:10, "He has created the heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast onto the earth firm mountains lest it should shake with you.."
Now with our modern scientific knowledge we know that mountains
are not like tent pegs which Quran states. Professor of Geology,
Dr. David A. Young completely refuted the idea by saying,
"While it is true that many mountain ranges are composed
of folded rocks (and the folds may be of large scale) it is
not true that the folds render the crust stable. The very
existence of the folds is evidence of instability in the crust."
In other words he emphasized, Mountains don't keep the earth
from shaking. Their formation caused and still causes the
surface of the earth to shake But the ancient Arab people did
not have that much knowledge to know the correct reason.
In Arabic "Amman jayal aarda kkara rau owa jayala khila-laha-anha
rauwaya jayala laha bawasiya owa jayala baainaal bahraani harziraan,
a-ilahum mayallahi."
Bangla translation is, "O hey boloto ! k duniya k boshobasher
sthan koriyachen ebong nodishomuho sristi koriyachen ebong uhakey
(prithibi k) sthir raakhibaar jonno paahar-porbot srijon koriyachen
?"
Dear Tarek, why your so-called miraculous
book contains such funny, incorrect wrong words? A book, which
is full of wrong numerous ideas and conceptions--- can it be written
by god?
Again come to the sura Luqman.
My translation was-"He has created the heavens without any
pillars, that you see and has set on the Earth firm mountains,
lest it should shake with you……" [Luqman (31:10)]
Tareq, your response is-"Avijit, I am wondering how you as
a Software Engineer concluded from "lest it should shake
with you" meaning Quran says Earth is fixed and NOT moving!"
Mr. Tarek, now I want to give the complete translation of the
verse for you:
031.010
YUSUFALI: He created the heavens (sky) without any
pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains
standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered
through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky,
and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.
PICKTHAL: He hath created the heavens without supports
that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm hills, so
that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed therein
all kinds of beasts. And We send down water from the sky and We
cause (plants) of every goodly kind to grow therein.
See the original Arabic version-"khalakkach chamaoyati
begbayari amadin taraunaha owa aalka fil aarodbi rawasiya
ann taamidabikum; owa baccha fiha minkulli da-bbatin…"
Here the Arabic word "Rawasia" means peg (khuti
/ kilok). Do you think Tarek, tent-pegs
are used to make the tents move or rotate? It rally does not need
to be a "software engineer" to know that pegs are used
to make the structure fixed/stable/unmoved.
To clarify you, I put another verse for you from Quran where Allah
compared mountains with pegs---
078.006- 078.007
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
And the mountains as pegs?
Do You really think Tarek, the mountains
which are described as pegs are used to make earth rotate not
to make it fixed or stable?
Sura luqman also describes the improper knowledge of ancient
Arab about the sky. The ancient Arabs thought that our blue sky
has a physical entity and the sky is the roof of the earth. They
believed that it is allah who hold this sky with unseen pillars
to prevent falling it upon our head ! What a great scientific
idea, I must say !!!! Another misconception of Quran is "Shaat-aasmaan"
story. The Qur'an speaks in several verses of the "seven
skys (heavens)". Dr. Torki speaks of these verses and quotes
them as follows:
Noah (Nuh) 71:15-16, Early Meccan.
"Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other, and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp?"
The Dominion (Al-Mulk) 67:3, Middle Meccan.
"He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other..."
The Believers (Al-Mu'minun) 23:17,86, Late Meccan.
"And We have made above you seven tracts (or roads or paths),
and we are never unmindful of the creation." "Say, `Who
is Lord of the seven heavens, and Lord of the tremendous
throne?"
Ha Mim Al-Sajda 41:12, Late Meccan.
"And He completed them seven heavens in two days and
inspired in each heaven its command..."
Tarek don't you find the above-mentioned verses are just illogical
and irrational? We know from our modern scientific knowledge that
Sky has no physical entity; it's just the ultimate limit of human
eyesight. -which was not known by ancient people of Quranic age.
But Allah definitely is not ignorant;
He is omniscient and omnipotent. Still, Why does Allah need an
unseen pillar to prevent the sky (which has no physical entity)
from falling upon people's head? Doesn't it eventually conclude
the fact that the book contains only primitive, immature and unscientific
thoughts of Arab?
Tarek, you cleverly escaped my original challenge. I challenged
you to show any of the verses from Quran that clearly states "earth
moves round the sun" or at least "earth rotates/moves".
You could not. My challenge still continues for you and other
believers--
"In Arabic "ARDA"
means the Earth and "FALAK" is rotation/movement.
Can you show me any of the verses from Qur'an that contains these
two words one after another ?"
IF you can, I will be a Muslim at once.
Regards,
Avijit.
This page is maintained by Avijit Roy, Research Scholar of The National University of Singapore. Contact Address: Avijit Roy (avijitroy@hotmail.com).