Letter of Debate: Religion vs. Modern Science.

It gives me much pleasure to write something in NFB after a long time. Today I will introduce the reader with an interesting chain e-mail debate that usually I have to continue in every weekend.  Below is one of the sample e-mails that I usually receive in each week from various known or unknown sources:

>“...my dear brother. now u have heard about embryology in the koran and heard about the big bang
>and comets and evolution and many things but u dont think about how could such a man no these
>things without powerful microscopes, telescopes. u try to find a mistake in the koran , but this thing
>about there earth is no error i just explained that to u. please my brother just see how many scientists
>were astonished when they found these scientific facts but now u say that there r scientific errors when
>even the greatest scientists say that it is a true fact now ho know better u or scientists? there r so
>many true scientific facts in the koran y r u so anxious to find out what the koran says about the
>earth? scientists can see the earth using devices now there r things that cannot b seen may b slightly.
>for example the red eye nebula , its is billions of miles away scientists have only recently found a way
>to see it using one of the most powerful deices .....think about this the cats eye nebula was mentioned
>to the holly prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago ,,how could such a man now this kind of stuff? (how
>could anyone know this stuff?)even the big bang was mentioned in the koran how can Muhammad
>now these stuff ,,, and about embryology and geology???..."

I think readers are already quite familiar with such kind of mails claiming that some primitive religious books X or Y contain 20th century advanced scientific knowledge. Some of those mails integrates the religious verses from a particular primitive book with red star nebula, sometimes with Big bang, or sometimes claims for mathematical miracles of 19 or 7 etc in a very crude way. Some of the mails even in their conclusion insist the receivers to distribute that mail to at least 10 or 20 people, otherwise it would bring bad-luck for the receiver!

Before I put my answer to those mail, I think interested readers need a preamble to know the reason for which I have been receiving such funny mails (especially from the Muslim believers) on a regular basis. Some of my intimate friends know that I have put an article in the Net that contains a specific challenge regarding the rotation of earth (http://humanists.net/avijit/openChallenge.html). I have few more other published articles in the Net regarding different things; but that (above mentioned) particular article that I have put in the web is just to refute the claim of so-called religious Muslim scientists who always spend their valuable energy and effort to dig out Quran and Hadith to seek for (or relate with) 20th century modern scientific knowledge such as Big bang explosion, human cloning, Nebula, supernova etc.

In that article, I demonstrated clearly that there is no sura in Quran that depicts that the earth moves round the sun. On the contrary, everywhere in the Qurtan we find the fixed picture of earth [see Fatir (35:41), An-Naml (27:61), Luqman (31:10), Al-Baqara (2:22), An-Nahl (16:15) etc.] There is no sura or any kind of indication in Quran that supports the common fact that earth moves or rotates (for detailed description, interested readers may go to http://humanists.net/avijit/openChallenge.html). And it is not unusual. The time when Quran revealed was a very primitive age, and people at that age could not visualize the movement of earth. That's why we do not find any sura containing the movement of earth in Quran. It is not true only for Quran, rather this picture is very true for any kind of primitive religious books (for example, Vedas, Upanishad, Bible etc). I have been reading those religious books from quite a long time with my own interest in a free mind (emphasize F R E E); but I did not find any information regarding any movement of earth in any of those miraculous holy books. As an intelligent being why should not we question about the real fact? Why always our free, liberated, inquisitive mind should be oppressed by so-called learned Moulana or Dhormo-gurus?

It is generally agreed that not only Qurtan, all other primitive religious book such as Bible, Vedas, Upanishad also describe an immovable earth. Here are a few obvious texts from Bible:

I Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."

Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm..."

Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable..."

Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."

Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."

Here I wish to quote some verses from Vedas to illustrate that all of the Hindu purans also contain the same misconception.

"Sabita made this Earth fixed by different devices (like hills and mountains) and sustains sky without pillars so that it does not move" [RIK VEDA]

"The sky is immovable, the Earth is immovable and these mountains are also immovable" [RIK VEDA 10-173-4] etc.

 

One of my religious friends once e-mailed me by saying that…

>there is no verse in Quran that represents that earth is round, but surely it does not mean that Quran
>supports “earth is flat”. Same analogy goes in case of rotation of earth too. Not mentioning about
>earth’s rotation does not conclude that Quran supports that earth is fixed.

 I replied him that Not only about the rotation of the earth, in many places in Quran it alludes to the fact that earth is flat and mountains are like poles, which create a balance so that earth does not tilt. In chapter 88:17,20 it is recorded....

"Will they not regard the camels how they are created...... and earth how it spread?"

So that in page 509, the Jalalan says, "In this phrase 'how it spread', he denotes that earth is flat. All the scholars of Islam agree upon this. It is NOT round as the physicists claim.

In support of my argument I can show two prominent suras from Quran. .Qur'an says that one of the righteous men of God's servants (Alexander the Great ?) saw the Sun setting in a certain place of the Earth-in particular a well full of water and mud. There, this man found some people. Let us read what is recorded in the Qur'an (chapter "the Cave", verse 86):

"When he reached the setting place of the Sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: 'O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness" [Al-Kahf (18:86)].

Again,

Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom. [Al-Kahf (18:90)].

May I ask a simple question to the enlightened reader, why Allah thought that Sun needs a definite rising and setting place for it? Doesn't it eventually conclude that Allah considered that our earth is not round but flat?

History also shows that in the twelfth-century Arabian scientist Ibn al-Haitham asserted that the earth was spherical, not flat. But His work was castigated as heretical and his books were burned, as it does not support Quran.  In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz Ibn Baaz, issued an edict, or fatwa, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished.

Hindu Purans also have similar reasoning. The NARASINGA PURANA, (Page 169) : Abithana Sinthamani, the Vedas and all other ‘holy' Puranas of Hindu religion claim that the Earth is flat. Some of the bigoted Brahmins who still think that those Purans are revelation of God, refuse to believe the modern spherical earth concept and have hence set up a `Jambudvipa Institute' in Gujarat to ‘prove' the Vedic flat Earth theory !

In September 15, 1999, Miller, professor and chair of religious studies at Kansas University, claimed that "The Bible says the Earth has four corners," said and added that he believes the Earth is either a square or a tetrahedron, a solid figure with four triangular faces. Due to all of the erroneous verses stated in Bible, Quran and other religious books…. even in this progressive 20th century, some people dogmatically believe that our earth is NOT round, but flat. They have formed International Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org/). Interested readers may go to that web page; surely they will get a lot of amusements to know their funny claims!

Let’s again come to the “scientific claims” of Quran. I have found that Quran has many primitive and erroneous thoughts and concepts about many things. In many verses of Quran, Allah described sky as a canopy (2: 22) and it is Allah who holds the sky upon our head by unseen pillars. But now we know from our modern scientific knowledge that Sky has no physical entity it’s just the ultimate limit of human eyesight. -which was not known by ancient people of Quranic age. Allah definitely is not ignorant; He is omniscient and omnipotent. Still, Why does Allah need an unseen pillar to prevent the sky (which has no physical entity) from falling upon people's head? Doesn’t it eventually conclude the fact that the book contains only primitive, immature and unscientific thoughts of Arab?

If we read Quran critically, we will find that there is no scientific miracle at all. On the other hand, the book is full of errors, ancient/primitive beliefs, scientific misconceptions and contradictions. Yet we always find some religious scholar arguing that Quran talks about Big Bang, Nebula, Human cloning...all advanced 20th century scientific knowledge (the mail that I put in the top of my article also claimed for the same) !

I generally answer the argument just mentioning again that Quran is not supernatural. It is the clever interpreters who always try to give a different meaning in it. And it is only after something happens that the interpreters create a loud noise. In fact, there is no sura in Quran which depicts Big-Bang or other 20th century scientific theory---it is just some clever interpreters who by force try to relate some suras with Big-Bang and Nebula to misguide common people. Lets have an example.

[al-Anbiya' 21:30] Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, ....


Some Muslim interpreters tries to relate this sura with Big-Bang. But does it really depict any fact about Big-bang at all? Lets look the next verses to understand the Quranic image ...

[al-Anbiya' 21:30] ... the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them…,


Pikthall [al-Anbiya' 21:31] And We have placed in the earth firm hills [mountains] lest it quake with them, ...


Pikthall [al-Anbiya' 21:32] And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them)..

.
Shakir [ar-Ra`d 13:2] Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see ...

It establishes a very primitive image on the relationship between the heavens and earth. After Allah raise up the heavens on unseen pillars, and put down the earth, he put the mountains on the earth to not quake,( like putting a heavy thing on a piece of paper not to fly?)! Allah make the sky a roof withheld to not fall on people head?! How he do so? By putting the heavens on unseen pillars!! Is it supported really by 20th century modern scientific knowledge?!


There is nothing at all in this verse that can relate with Big-bang. If the verse really relate with Big Bang, then where is the explosion? This verse does not show any kind of explosion at all. So how can it be related with Big Bang?

I will request the believers to think logically, rather than trying to (by force) believe that "Everything stated in Quran is wholly scientific and miraculous". I see many frivolous attempts by so called religious scientists to link planetary nebulae with Quranic verses ("When the sky is torn apart, so it was like a red rose, like oinment"---Ar Rahaman). This is undoubtedly a flawed attempt that is often made by apologetics of all other religion, some more than others. Just to illustrate, still there are many unanswered questions relating to universe. For example (~Quote from an article of Aparthib Zaman), we don’t know at this time whether the universe is closed, open or flat. That's why no religious scholar dares to make any prediction based on any revelation now. But if the answer is ever found out by science (say, by the attempt of non-muslim scientist Stephen Hawkings for example), I am sure some Muslim scholars will evidently dig out some vague verses from Quran and will claim "see --- Quran mentioned this scientific truth almost 1400 years ago! See how miraculous our book is!". The resemblances are always found AFTER the fact has been occurred, never been found BEFORE the scientific discovery. We must realize that Einstein need not read Quran to discover his theory of relativity, rather than, only after Einstein discovered the basic fact, some of the Muslim interpreters made a loud noise to dig some silly suras from Quran to make analogy with relativity by force. Here is one of the portion of my website where I refuted some of the claims provided by Mr. Maurice Bucaille for relating suras with 20th century modern science:

http://www.geocities.com/avijitroy/Maurice_Bucaille/anstoBucaille.html

http://www.geocities.com/avijitroy/Maurice_Bucaille/miracles/index.htm

Some Islamists are really desperate nowadays to prove Muhammad a Biologist, Embryologist, Cosmologist, Chemist and theologist.....while it is quite true that being a citizen of a very primitive age, he (Muhammad) had a lacking of basic reasoning of science. I wish to put here one of the example. The ancient people at that age had a severe problem to solve --"where does Sun exactly stay at night !!!". Let’s quote from Hadith about Muhammad’s thought regarding this - "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne of Allah and takes the permission to rise again" [Volume 4 Number 421]. How can those Islamists defend those words of Muhammad? Does sun really stay underneath the throne of Allah at night? Is this a scientific fact? Muhammad also showed his ignorance about the scientific facts behind solar eclipses by expressing-"Eclipses of the Sun are the signs from God to frighten Believers" [Volume 2 Number 167]. While Muhammad failed to guess the basic scientific facts behind those natural events, how it is generally claimed that he knew (or predicted) about Big Bang, Nebula, and Gene Technology? Is this actually true or just a fuss?

Readers will get some real amusements by reading some so called ***scientific*******funny Hadiths from the following web page:

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/hdth.htm

It is not only the Muslim religious scientist, but also the Christian and Hindu scientists dogmatically claim for scientific authenticity for their own religious scriptures respectively. Some of the Hindu scientists (!) in India claim that in Mahabharat Lord Krishna showed his “Bishmo Rup” to Arjun, which is exactly similar to the majestic energy of Big-Bang.  Mrinal Dasgupta, the senior scientist of Indian National Science Academy argues that whatever modern theories and concepts are being developed by modern science, all were actually previously discovered by our ancient spiritual gurus (Rishis) in long time ago. All of those inventions are clearly listed (!?!) in Vedas and Upanishads and other Hindu Purans. Mr. Dasgupta claims that Robert Oppenheimer, American physicist who directed the Los Alamos, New Mexico, laboratory during the development of the first atomic bomb (1942-1945), got amazed by watching the gigantic energy of atom and recited from Gita---

“Dibi shurjushohosro vabed jugpoduthiita.
Jodi vah shodrishi sa syad vashshosh mohatmano.”    

All of those Hindu religious scientists imperiously try to claim that Hindu mythologies, concepts and thoughts contain all recent advanced scientific inventions and discoveries. Ramkrishna Mishan, one of the fundamentalists Association of Hindus tried to conclude in their Mukhapatra “Udvadon” that the invention of the concepts of Black hole by modern scientists are nothing new. Hindu religion long time ago exposed the concept of Black hole. How? By those common well-spread words—“One moment for Brohmma is equal to thousand years for us” ! They also claim that though we think that test tube baby, surrogate mother are the contribution of modern science, actually those are not new. The mythology of the birth of Dron-Droni and Shattabati resembles those old scientific facts ! Even the scud and Patriot missiles used in Gulf war were nothing but “Borun Baan” and “Ogni Baan” described in Hindu Purans!!!! 

The readers may have already noticed the clever way of Hindu interpreters.   This is the exactly similar and funny way that the Muslim scientists imply to find out Nebula and Big Bang in Quran. Prabir Ghosh,  General secretary of Scientific and Rational Association of India, in his book "Why don’t I believe in god" clearly demonstrated that everything could be resembled with anything by force if you wanted to do it in a funny & silly way. Say for example; let’s assume that you have asked a drunkard in a road about the model of universe. That drunkard might have pulled a bottle of whiskey from the floor and pour off the whole bottle of liquor into his mouth, then threw off the empty bottle by the side of the road and went away. You can easily make an analogy with the behavior of a drunkard with the ultimate conclusion universe. When the bottle was full of liquor...it resembled to expanding universe. The drunkard began to pour the liquor into his mouth to show you that after some prolonged period of time, expansion of universe will stop and contraction will begin....and ultimately throwing off the empty bottle by the side of the road he meant that one day universe will come to the singularity point by contraction and then ultimately destroy!
This is the only funny, silly and wishful way that all of those religious scholars follow ……to dig the holy Religious Books and try to find out the "red sky" only after the NASA scientist have discovered the real fact.

In conclusion I must add that early man did not have the knowledge and security, which we can command now. Similarly the future generations who will know more about the conditions in other planets and constellations and perhaps will develop scientific knowledge so as to control age and death, will know more than what we do now.  That’s why it is absurd to think that the religious books, which were basically written by ancient people, are free from any errors and it is more than absurd to think that those books revealed Big bang, Nebula, Relativity, Black hole and other modern scientific knowledge. When we keep our mind thus open, we find today that the concept of god also arose in response to the needs of curiosity to know the nature of things and events around, to have a moral order and also to the need to express aesthetic cravings. But we have to comprehend that god beliefs no doubt have a negative effect on our today's rational life since they are bolstered through faith instead of evidence. We see faith as being the same as gullibility since both words mean "Acceptance Without Evidence." Gullibility (or faith) makes it easy for dishonest people to fool us, or rule us. This how all prophets and god-messengers fooled and ruled common people in past time by using gullibility. Those Religious scientists like Dr. Maurice Bucaille, Dr. Shamsher Ali, Dr. Mrinal Dasgupta adopting the same technique of using gullibility even in this progressive age. They even try to prove that there is a scientific miracle even in some cruel practices such as  Kurbaani, Patha-boli, Hila marriage or Shatidaha (widow burning). Skepticism and doubt actually can prevent a lot of avoidable misery. The history of religion (with its foundation built on faith), is a history of intolerance and violence. We have not forgot yet that Giordano Bruno, Italian philosopher was condemned by the Inquisition for heresy, immoral conduct, and blasphemy, he was burned at the stake by those religious fundamentalists for revealing the scientific facts which contradict with Bible. Galileo Galilei also had to lead to his life imprisonment by the Inquisition. The most pleasant moments of human history no doubt, have been during times when religious control and influence were in decline.

Avijit Roy.

Research Scholar and Software Engineer
Singapore.

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