Reply to a Response on ‘WHY I DISLIKE RELIGION: TEN TOPMOST REASONS’

 By Jahed Ahmed

“It is a farce to call any being virtuous whose virtues do not result from the exercise of its own reason”---Mary Wollstonecraft

First of all, I apologize for my delayed reply (due to some personal affair) to all those who responded to my comment titled “WHY I DISLIKE RELIGION……….”(appeared on NFB on last 27^th December, 2000). Yeah, I made comments, which I believed & still firmly believe applicable to almost all religions. Only there is difference of degree! However, some people from both Islam as well as Christianity opposed to some of my comments in an effort to prove that their respective religion is an exception to the rule. I was not taken aback at this, as I knew every religious believer has a common tendency to think that his religion is the best! Nevertheless, their arguments deserve some genuine answer & here I’ll try to do that stepwise quoting my original comment & simultaneously their response & my reply.

 1) Is Christianity an Exception???

 “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace BUT a sword”. (Matthew 10:34)

 Under the title ‘In defense of Religion’ Mr. Glyn Armstrong (GA) from UK (posted on 28^th December 2000, NFB issue) opposed my comments, in his words, from the point of view of a Christian. Let’s examine his points of opposition in terms of Biblical sayings.

 My original comment: “NO RELIGION ENCOURAGES FREE THINKING WHICH IS CONTRARY TO U.N. UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS”.

GA’s response:  “I do not find my thinking restricted by my religion. My religious beliefs are not dictated to me, but are rather determined by my intellect and conscience.” 

My reply: Is it really the case? Let’s see what BIBLE says on the pursuit of knowledge. Just a few verses:

“For what hath the wise more than the FOOL?…”(Eccl 6:8);    “…If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a FOOL, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with GOD…”(1 Cor 3:18-19 and Job 5:12-13)

My humble question is: Being a pious Christian, does Mr. GA consider him as a fool??

One more verse where knowledge is punished in:”For it is written, I will DESTROY the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent…hath not GOD made FOOLISH the wisdom of this world?….”(1 Cor 1:17-23)

My original comment:”RELIGION IS THE GREATEST FACTOR RESPONSIBLE IN THE WORLD HISTORY THAT LED TO DEATH OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN SO-CALLED HOLY WARS.”

GA’s response: Yes, many people have died in misguided "Holy Wars" but most recent wars have had nothing to do with religion. Even conflicts in which the two sides are labelled by their religions (e.g. Bosnia) have more to do with ethnic identity than religious belief.”

My reply: Thanks for admitting the truth, though partially. I totally disagree with you what you’ve said “….most recent wars have had nothing to do with religion….”  BECAUSE even today most wars are taking place in the name of religion. Examples are Palestine/Israel issue, Kashmir, Bosnia, Chychnia, East Timor etc (Please also read my detailed reply below on Holy War).

My original comment: "RELIGION DISCRIMINATES BETWEEN MALE & FEMALE IN TERMS OF PROVIDING EQUAL RIGHTS (Again contrary to UN human right declaration)".

GA’s response: "This may be true of Islam (I will leave that for Muslims to debate) but I do not think this is the case in Christianity".

My reply: Woman suppression by Christianity & its Church is well documented in the history (Ref.: ‘Woman’s Bible’ (1895) by Elizabeth Cady Stanton). Some specific historical examples of violent and unjust acts that were incited or supported by Bible teaching would be the inquisition; the Crusades; the burning of witches; the religious wars in Europe; the pogroms carried out against Jewish community; the persecution of homosexuals; the enslavements of black & other persons; the beating of children & mentally ill…etc.

As a specific example of woman suppression, we can quote Elizabeth Cady Stanton: “The Bible teaches that woman brought sin and death into world, that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period of suffering and anguish and in silence and subjection, she was to play the role of a dependent on man’s bounty for all her material wants, and for all the information she might desire…Here is the Bible position briefly summed up”.

My original comment:” RELIGION HAS KEPT MANKIND SEPARATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS”.

GA’s response: “It has also provided a unifying force. Bigots may use religion as an excuse for their acts but they are not in keeping with the true nature of their religion.”

My reply: Review the history of people killed in holy wars. Just think the consequence when you start believing what Jesus said: "He that is not with me is against me”. (Matthew 12:30) What’d be then your attitude toward people who don’t believe in Jesus or Christianity?

My original comment: "RELIGION TAKES ADVANTAGE OF HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY NAKEDLY BY SCARING PEOPLE IN TERMS OF DREADFUL PUNISHMENTS IN AFTERLIFE (?). THUS IT CONVERTS PEOPLE INTO FEAR PSYCHOTIC PATIENTS, WHICH IS REALLY INHUMAN." 

GA’s response: “Christianity says more about forgiveness than punishment.”

My reply: Here are few examples how Bible make its points with threats of violence.

“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”(Luke 19:27);  “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth…and men gather them into the fire, and they are burned”. (John 15:6)

My original comment: "IN RELIGION, PEOPLE ARE LED BY BLIND BELIEF RATHER THAN RATIONALE & CONSCIENCE"

GA’s response: "This may be the case for many people, particularly those who are poorly educated but it is not the case for many others, including myself."

My reply: If you are a Christian, you have to believe in birth of Jesus in Virgin Marry, Second returning of Jesus (although it’s been 2000 years since his followers are waiting for his return). How do you justify such beliefs in terms of rationale??

My original comment: "IN MODERN WORLD, RELIGION HAS COMPLETELY FAILED TO CREATE A PEACEFUL & CIVILIZED NATION."

GA’s response: “Perhaps this is because people have not followed their religions properly. Certainly peace is central to Christianity. Remember that slavery was abolished due to a movement lead by the Christian Church. The equal rights movement in the USA was also led by Christians.”

My reply: Those are rare events you do find even in most fanatic religion today. About US, its constitution is a secular document which begins, “We the people,” and contains no mention of” God” or “Christianity”. Its only reference to religion is exclusionary, such as, “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust”(Art.VI) . Also in 1797 America made a treaty with Tripoly, declaring that “the government of the US is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”. Thus it is, by no way, Christianity that served US to become a secular and civilized country.

Also remember what Bertrand Russell said: "The Christian religion has been and still the principal enemy of moral progress in the world".

My original comment:” IN WORLD HISTORY, RELIGION HARDLY, IF EVER, ENCOURAGED PROGRESS OF SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY, RATHER MOSTLY IT HINDERED”.

GA’s response: "That may have been true in the past. I cannot think of any examples now except where particular research is considered immoral.”

My reply: How can we forget extreme brutality Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin etc scientists had to undergo? Because of the foundations they’ve laid modern Science has reached today’s position. THUS it doesn’t make sense to say religion once hindered progress BUT doesn’t hinder anymore. Even today, so-called ethicists start shouting whenever new discoveries are made (e.g. Genetic Engineering & its product transgenic food, Cloning research, Embryo research.  etc).

My original comment:” RELIGION RESTRICTS PERSONAL FREEDOM TO A LARGE EXTENT “(Contrary to UN human rights declaration).

GA’s response: “Religions lay down rules for their followers. As long as everyone has a right to choose their own religion I cannot see any restrictions on personal freedom. The big problem here is when people are not allowed to change their religion. The biggest offender here appears to be Islam. Missionaries are often not allowed to work freely in many Islamic countries whilst I do not know of any such restriction in Europe.”

My reply: Here what I meant is as follows: With strict belief in religion one submits himself or herself to the total will of GOD i.e. to say one’s way of living, way of thinking are dictated by religion. Why let this happen?? I’m totally competent to take responsibility of my own life. It’s relevant to quote Einstein in this context:

“I can not imagine a GOD who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own—a God, in short, who is but a reflection of a reflection of a human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.”

My original comment: "LAST, SPEAKING ABOUT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, IF I WERE TO FOLLOW MY OWN RELIGION (ISLAM) STRICTLY, I'D CERTAINLY DEPRIVE MYSELF …….."

GA’s response: What do you mean by "Your religion"? If you are not following the teachings of Islam then why do you call Islam your religion? If you believe in a religion then you should find it worthwhile to follow the rules it lays down. My religion (in common with most others) says I should not murder. I do not find that a problem, but perhaps you think that is a restriction on my human rights.”

 My reply: I made it very clear that I don’t obey my religion & tried to point out consequences if I had followed. Thus to me, being born in an Islamic family is just a coincidence. I believe my identity is a humanist and thus believe in no discrimination among mankind based on religion, race or place of origin. Within my capacity, as far as possible, I’d like to work for all mankind. About your second point: you’re completely mistaken. Committing murder arises from an unhealthy & heinous attitude THUS by no way, it’s supported by a humanist view. BUT many religions provoke such act. Concept of personal freedom in a humanist is more philosophical rather than physical!

 

2) ON HOLY WAR  

Mr. Shazib Chowdury strongly opposed (NFB, 28th December, 2000) one of my comments that says” RELIGION IS THE GREATEST FACTOR RESPONSIBLE IN THE WORLD HISTORY THAT LED TO DEATH OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN SO-CALLED HOLY WARS.”

In the words of Mr. Chowdhury, "What an absurd discovery and a blatant distortion of history………Religious violence has taken much lesser death toll compared to the ethnic and nationalistic violence". Similar question has been also raised by Mr. Nasim Chowdhury.

 My reply: Even though ethnic & nationalistic conflict has resulted in great number of killings in the world history, I don’t think, the number is more than those killed in religious holy war since the beginning of human history.

 It’s thought that the number of people killed in religious conflicts through the centuries exceeds 100 million (in early civilization various religious killing were in epidemic proportion all over the world), but an exact number would be impossible for any historian to learn. Nevertheless, within whatever has been recorded in the history, some examples are as follows:

Nonislamic religious war:

 

• The Taiping Rebellion was launched in China in the 1850s by a Christian convert who said God appeared to him in a vision, told him he was a younger brother of Jesus, and told him to "kill demons." He raised a religious army and waged a horrendous war that killed as many as 20 million people, most encyclopedia say. The uprising finally was quelled by defense forces such as one led by the Englishman "Chinese" Gordon - who later went to the Nile Valley to resist a Muslim holy war, and was killed when the fanatics overran Khartoum.

 

• The Thirty Years War between Protestants and Catholics in the 1600s killed an estimated one-third of Germany's population and left the region devastated.

 

• A half-dozen religious wars between France's Catholics and Protestant Huguenots killed hundreds of thousands. This was part of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, which caused bloodshed all over Europe.

 

• The half-dozen Christian Crusades into the Holy Land butchered an untold number of people - and then popes began waging "internal crusades" against deviant Christians around Europe. The Hussite Wars were part of this nightmare. So was the Catholic war against Cathari Christians, which killed an estimated 20,000 people at the French city of Beziers.

 

• Christian pogroms and massacres of Jews recurred for centuries, fueling the anti-Semitism that culminated in Hitler's Holocaust. Many theologians say the Holocaust was a natural outgrowth of Christian hatred for Jews.

 

• A Buddhist-Hindu civil war is killing great numbers on the island of Sri Lanka(formerlyCeylon).

 

• Don't forget Ulster, where Catholics and Protestants murder each other

 

Islamic war: 

• In ancient Arab, people were very very less in number. But still 10,000 Muslims were killed by Muslims themselves by civil war of Jamal. Another 70,000 were killed in siffen war between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Muaiba. One would get horrified by calculating the ratio between the number of people killed and the the number of people living at that time.

 

• Muslim holy wars spread Islam westward across North Africa and up through Spain - and eastward into India - and northward through the Balkans into Austria. God only knows how many died in all those centuries of fighting.
  The recent horror in the Balkans (between Catholic Croatians, Orthodox Serbs and Muslim Bosnians and Kosovars) is historic fallout from the ancient Muslim conquest.

 

• Around 1 million Hindus and Muslims were killed in rioting when India and Pakistan split in the late 1940s - and murder among Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs has continued sporadically ever since.

 

• The Muslim-Christian civil war in Sudan has been recurring since the 1960s, and has killed about 2 million. Civil war between religious militias devastated Lebanon during the 1980s.

 

• Second world war though was not a holy war BUT no body can deny the fact
  that it caused millions of death in the name of removing all Jews from the
  face of earth.

 

• Also in 1971, Pakistan created one of the cruelest genocides in world
  history by killing 3 million Bangalees in then East Pakistan (present
  Bangladesh) in the name of protecting religion.

 

Even today we do see that most of the killings directly or indirectly are related to religion. Here is a very latest sample:

• "Twenty worshippers killed in gun attack on Khartoum mosque (AFP)
  (Khartoum, December 9)

TWENTY MUSLIM worshippers were shot and killed on Friday night in a bloody attack by a fundamentalist gunman on a mosque in the outskirts of Omdurman, a suburb of Khartoum, Sudan's police chief said on state television.

Witnesses said around 30 people were wounded when the Muslim extremist, who was arrested by security forces, opened fire with an automatic rifle through a window of the mosque of the pacifist Muslim sect Ansar al-Sunna. "There was blood all over the place. People were terrified," said one of the worshippers at the mosque which was packed with people attending evening Muslim prayers. Police and ambulance sirens wailed as the wounded were rushed to hospital and security forces were still surrounding the area in the outskirts of Omdurman well into the night.

Some witnesses said there were three assailants and that one of them had been killed by police, while others said there was only one.Police chief Hujo al-Kanzi said the lone assailant was a member of the fundamentalist Muslim group Takfir wal-Hijra (atonement and self- denial) which has religious differences with Ansar al-Sunna.".

Hope this opens the heart of all those who are still unaware of the heinous and dreadful characteristic of religion.

Thanks all those reading this reply!

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