Avijit's response : LIFE - DEATH - AFTERLIFE

Zamir, I am trying to express my thoughts about your enquiries.

Zamir : I had the opportunity to meet very intelligent people here which I have no doubt about. Guess everyone knows by now that I happen to be a believer. Can anyone tell me one thing. What is the meaning of LIFE? What is the difference of the life that Einstein had, Newton had, Jesus (PBUH) had, Muhammad (PBUH) had, Darwin had, Tagore had and I have and You have or a
murderer have or whoever. What is the difference? Pure and simple, one question, what is the difference?

Avijit's Reply: About life : Zamir, as a lay man, I am trying to give you the answer from a scientific point of view. If I can correctly recall the famous reply of Masud bhai (Aparthib)  in eShomabesh, his answer carried a lot of interest in explaining life, death and immorality (I always owe u Masud bhai!). To briefly phrase the best known scientific answer today in scientific jargon : "Life is a dissipative structure that has achieved the threshold of complexity to become an autopoietic system." The purpose of life is to faithfully obey the Second Law of Thermodynamics by increasing entropy (Even eating, or even sex are dictated by this requirement, although our brain translates it into a sense of desire and pleasure for us, hiding the real underlying purpose from our conscious mind).

Why do we die? In short because we (i.e most plants and animals) have inherited through evolution death genes from our protist (single celled organisms with nucleus) ancestors that took to reproduction through sex purely due to a better evolutionary survival strategy in tough primitive environments. Death is brought about in a programmed way by certain genes (death genes). Those few life forms (bacteria) that did not and still do not reproduce sexually are immortal (See Zamir,  even God cannot kill them !) , barring accidental deaths. So if I answer you in a very lucid way,  it will be...those developed organic species who has chosen sex as a means for reproduction, they eventually have accepted the inevitable death, and those who can reproduce themselves without having the need of any sexual means .. are immoral (When their body grows to a certain size, the whole body divides into two. Each part grows again. When it attains the adult size, it divides in its turn into two again. Thus no part of the body dies). So...Death is not the universal condition of all living beings. They can however be killed by some chemicals. In fact man made medicines (drugs) can kill these germs to cure the diseases caused by them, like malaria and dysentery.

Your other questions were ....What is the difference of the life that Einstien had, Newton had, Jesus (PBUH) had, Muhammad (PBUH) had, Darwin had, Tagore had and I have and You have or a murderer have or whoever. ... From scientific point of view, they all came from the same biological root (in a systematic process of evolution - a change in the gene pool of a population over time). They all died after faithfully obeying laws of thermodynamics (i.e increasing entropy by various means). These various means differed by their different activities they chose. This is the "activity" on which we want to emphasize that plays a key role to increase the entropy. As a humanist I have chosen (to increase entropy) by maintaining a democratic and ethical life stance which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. My life is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality unless it is accepted by substantial proof.


Zamir : I dont find a meaning of life the way you deal with it, i.e. with materialistic approach. That leeds me to the understanding that every tom dick or harriet does not differ in any way: materially and not spiritually as spirit is bogus. Regardless of whatever we do, we exist for the reason of time and we vanish and disappear.

Avijit's Reply: Yes. That's true. As I mentioned previously, body becomes dust after death. Nothing survives death, except, figuratively speaking, memories of the good and bad of one's life continued in the progeny. It is reality. But human mind sometimes do not want to accept the reality. He loves to imagine wishfully that after death he will still remain (alive!). He loves to think that there is a heavenly father waiting for him. He will take care of his good and bad deeds in earth.

Primitive people, while could not find the real answer (cause) of death, wishfully crated a entity as the rambles of a detachable part of the body, called soul, which (they thought) is immortal and would go to strange lands after death. There they will be treated in a fancy fancy way !!!

I would like to give you one of my favorite quotation of Carl Sagan in this regard ---

"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides." [Carl Sagan, 1996 in his article In the Valley of the Shadow Parade Magazine Also, Billions and Billions p. 215]

Zamir : Everything dies when I die. Just for an example, Edison invented Light, we are getting the benifit and that poor fella is vanished now and cant even see that we are using his stuff. Just cant accept this theory.

Avijit's  reply: Yes Zamir, I fully understand your feelings. As I mentioned before, our wishful thinking sometimes a great hinder for logical reasoning. Zamir, You personally do not know me. If you knew, then you would have known my feelings. I lost my wife - the most adorable partner of my life this year. All of my closest friends know how much we loved each other. I know, I would be the most happiest person in this world if I could meet her in afterlife. But, I know it is nothing but my wishful thinking; nothing more than a childish fairy-tales. My wife also agnostic in nature. She did not use to pray or worship. But she was a real human. She taught me how to think freely, how to do the wale fare of human being without having any fancy idea of afterlife in mind. she let me derive to become a votary of humanism ...with morality from an understanding of our nature as social beings who like to co-operate with one another and show sympathy and compassion for our fellow creatures. 

For Humanists the afterlife is what you leave behind in other people, what good things you did for the society.


Zamir : My problem is, it is difficult for me to vanish after death. Then again, I do want to reap if I sow something. I don't want to vanish and in a position that I cant even see if others are getting any benefit out of it (which could have given me at least some comfort).

Avijit's reply: Let's put it this way... make your comfort by doing something realistic and productive for human society, not by Prayer, worship, ritual and sale of Indulgence to gain imaginary god's favor or thinking fancy idea of heaven and hell.

We Humanists do not stand before god but before man and must account for our actions in this world. We try to give peace to poor people, try to give them rights in present world. We examine the case of economic discrimination and exploitation from rational point of view and we are dedicated to establish justice in present life. We neither indicate their sufferings as the "test of god" nor we try to convert or transfer their demand of justice to afterlife. The first result of atheistic morality is the establishment of economic and social equalities (not wait for the judgment form god in afterlife). As all humans belong to the same kind, inequality is inconsistent with morality. But the indirect appeals to the fatherhood of god for justice failed to achieve the purpose.

what are the benefit (reap) you expect anyway in afterworld from your good deeds, Zamir ? Are you expecting those X-rated version of heavenly bliss described in religious scriptures in afterlife? Those stories which are full of carnal gratification, sensual pleasures are reserved for man only ? Are you expecting that all those houris i.e. the most beautiful virgins, who inhabit paradise, are waiting now and going to treat you afterlife for your honesty in present world ? I told you Zamir those are just man made (male made) fairy tales !

" for them is reserved a definite
provision, fruit and a great honour in the Gardens of
Bliss reclining upon couches arranged face to face,
a cup from a fountain being passed round
to them, white, a pleasure to the drinkers .....
and with them wide-eyed maidens flexing
their glances as if they were slightly
concealed pearls." ( The Rangers 40: 45 )

You see Zamir, all those haram things are cleverly and dishonestly made "halal" in paradise, for which you are waiting so long!


Zamir : If, I take a materialistic approach and contain myself with this earthly world then I guess we should at any cost aid Communism or socialism: let us have our fair shares in this limited time. But sadly I believe in Democracy!!.

Avijit's reply : Who told you we are not democratic ? Do you think atheists/secular humanists exist only in communist world ? Wrong idea. Do you know how many atheists are there in USA, france, UK, asutralia, france ....? They are not spreading the idea of communism; on the contrary they all are the strong votary of democracy and democratic life. We believe in democracy; but we have courage to say that the present democracies are not democracies; they are sometimes dictatorships of majority parties. They spread "In god we trust" or "Indalahil Islam" (Islam is the only accepted religion to Allah) or "Fighting for Hindu rasta, Joy bharat mata" in disguise of democracy (religious democracy, I must say). Democracy in third world country, in disguise suppress freethoughts and freethinking. They Ban taslima Nasrin, Ahmed sharif. Democracy cannot arrest Amini when the culprit publicly declare prize for a freethinker's head. Democracy in disguise of an autocracy can easily ban Taslima's lojja (Shame) or Humayun Azad's "Naari" or salman Rushdi's "Satanic verses" while always indirecty promote Moris Bukaille's cheep psudo-scientific books in public. The Real democracy in third world is yet to come. We believe Secularism is a vital step towards Humanity and equality of mankind and it is in the right direction for the development of democracy. The change entails a revolution in the outlook and in the ways of life. But, the revolution is necessary to save mankind from superstition, fanaticism, war, Prejudice and poverty which we have inherited through ages of faith in god, soul and religious democracy .

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Published in Mukto-mona : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/456